relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

topic posted Mon, November 28, 2005 - 6:13 AM by  manish मनीष
I have a question, what is the relation between devotees of Lord Shiva and the smoking of ganja?

  • Unsu...

    Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

    Mon, November 28, 2005 - 9:40 AM
    An excuse for why they are potheads.
    • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

      Mon, November 28, 2005 - 9:46 AM
      Yes foolish people try to imitate Shiva, but they are not ready to drink an ocean of Poison. One follow Lord Shiva's guidance but not imitate. Here are some divine words of the Great Shiva
      • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

        Mon, November 28, 2005 - 10:02 AM
        nitya ji is so pure that he imitates only lord vishnu and revolve around him but nitya ji we respect you you should also respect us.... Many of the concepts of the Vedas are derived from Tantric concepts. As such, followers of the Vedas are brothers and sisters to Tantrics. And as I'd tell my brother or sister: I respect that your path works for you. the vaishnava path but please stop making all like you... we also have profound knowledge of texts but shivas the experimentors are not willing to abide by the ideas let us experiment, and search the truth find new ways ourselves , then we will decide which is right or wrong... without exploring the dark how can you judge the light and it's all how you see things... and may be your life just revolves around vedas and whats written within but have you ever went out and judged the world and people and life ... yes world is so beautiful also outside hare krsna but only when you will start exploring...

        !! AUM TRIYAMBAKAM !!

        !! AUM SHANTI !!
        • Ria
          offline 8

          Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

          Mon, November 28, 2005 - 6:28 PM
          I'm not sure about my relation as a ganga smoker to my devotion to Shiva, I suspect it has more to do with my growing up and living on Vancouver Island.. =) but I've got a very strong feeling that Shiva don't mind a bit. It's all love.
          • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

            Mon, November 28, 2005 - 6:43 PM
            Who said anything about pot*? ~Intoxicants are also Coffee,chocolate,coca-cola~etc... Just the Naga Baba's do have a propensity for bhang or hashish,(Some,Not All)at least they are not all on AMA's percodan,nexium,&lil'purple happy pills!just a thought.~
            • Unsu...

              Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

              Tue, November 29, 2005 - 3:09 AM
              The use of entheogens for spiritual awakening is pancultural. It is not limited to Shiva worshippers. And it does not make them pot-heads. Some people feel that pot helps them "stabilize a vision." I don't know if I buy it, but some mushrooms and other chemicals definitely would.

              I tend to avoid these things because:
              1) I don't need them to elicit visions or ecstasy.
              2) They are illegal.
              3) Expensive.
              4) Can be unhealthy and even dangerous.

              But... I am not about to cast judgement on anyone who does partake of "ganja."

              The use of entheogens can be necessary to open the third eye of some western individuals who spend too much time in their left brains. Baba Ram Das and Timothy Leary documented this pretty well.... even before they were kicked out of Harvard. Ram Das is still teaching today. I have met him and he is not a "pothead." LOL.

              (who does like chocolate and caffeine and is sipping coffee as she types today.)
        • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

          Mon, December 5, 2005 - 12:16 PM
          Actually, I think you have that backwards, Many of the Tantric concepts are derived from Vedas... though really there are not many... the tantras usually only refer to one of the vedas, the atharva veda, as having wisdom for the common era... the tantras are for a time (the current one, kaliyuga) when the vedic rituals no longer work.. The Tantras are natural progressions of the vedas.

          • Unsu...

            Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

            Mon, December 5, 2005 - 3:19 PM
            "I have a question, what is the relation between devotees of Lord Shiva and the smoking of ganja?"

            bhang ;) it wouldnt surprise me at all, although lost to history if bhang is the poison in the poison drinkers throat.
            • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

              Wed, December 7, 2005 - 12:25 AM
              ok there is mythology that says there was sagar manthana(sea grinding) once done by deavas and the asurat together for the amrita the devine drink which causes immortality... so with the amrita there were so many harzadous materials also came out from the sea .... there was a huge pot of poison that aroused from sea grinding which was so powerful that whole origin was endangered because of it... so it is believed that lord shiva drank the pot of poison and stopped it in his neck so when you see shivas neck it's colour is always blue...
              this the reason why it is believed that shiva always need something that gives high and shiva has to drink or smoke time to time to cure the poison of the world ... nice belief right?

              !! AUM NAMO SHIVAYAH !!
          • Unsu...

            Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

            Tue, December 6, 2005 - 4:02 AM
            My understanding is that Tantric practices predate Aryan influence and the Vedas.

            Can anyone site some references here?
            • Unsu...

              Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

              Tue, December 6, 2005 - 6:31 AM
              Really, the origins of Tantra are unknown. Traditionally the origin of Tantra is ascribed to Dattatreya, who is a rather timeless figure. However, his disciple Matsyendranath is the author of the first known written tantric text, the Kaulajnana-nirnaya, which is dated to the 9th century. This text is revered in both the Hindu and Buddhist tantric tradition.

              However, there are Buddhist tantrics who predate this, one of the earliest being the Buddhist Shilabhadra who dates to the 7th century. Scholars are unable to determine whether Hindu or Buddhist tantra came first.

              Personally, I believe the Buddhist tantras are oldest, meaning that tantra cannot have originated any earlier than the Buddha.
              • Unsu...

                Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                Tue, December 6, 2005 - 7:02 AM
                9th century seems very late to me. I would have guessed the first texts to have come out around 400 c.e.

                I suppose that is always going to be the rub when it comes to history. We really only know what is written down. Oral histories tend to change and fade. And we can only guess what happened in any "religion" before the books were written.

                Interesting, tho, to attribute the earliest writings to Buddhists. I would not have guessed that.
                • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                  Tue, December 6, 2005 - 8:21 AM
                  even if they came out at 400 c.e. the vedas predate this. (scholars usually accept them at 1500-2500 b.c. depending on the text- although we believe them to be much older;)
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                    Tue, December 6, 2005 - 11:01 AM
                    agreeing with Manu...though he might differ in his opinion to time and dates.
                    The Rg Veda is believed to be the oldest if not (one of) books in existence :)

                    'The Chilum is the body of god, what we put into it is the mind of God, the smoke we inhale and exhale is the power of god,
                    the feeling this gives us is the blessing of god'
                    (Unknown Saddhu in Benares, speaking of the relationship between sacremental use of Bhang and Lord Shiva)

                    Om Shivani Shiva Aum
                    • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                      Tue, December 6, 2005 - 11:04 AM
                      yup. rg veda is the oldest known scipture to mankind. hiya fox!
                      • Unsu...

                        Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                        Tue, December 6, 2005 - 11:25 AM
                        Indeed. But, just remember: "first texts" do not = "first knowing." Knowing and communicating predate writing by many, many generations. We must rely on anthropologists to tell us what happened before "alphabets" (even sanskrit) were developed.

                        • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                          Tue, December 6, 2005 - 11:41 AM
                          i disagree. that is an incredible statement u have just made. simply look at maragaret mead!!!! before my wife completed her degree in indology, she was an anthropology major but left this dying (and i dare say ethnocentric) field of study-thank god.

                          respectfully amma ji, some of us believe sanskrit to be timeless/divine and originating from god himself. personally, i prefer to put my faith in parampara (disciplic succession) as opposed to mundane anthropolgists who ARE capable of error and have erred as history is testimony to.

                          so IMHO in this case, first DOES equal knowing- cuz in this case first is GOD ;)

                          • Unsu...

                            Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                            Tue, December 6, 2005 - 12:22 PM
                            It is nice to disagree with someone who is honest about where he comes from. Because "faith" and "truth" (if there is such a thing) are not the same thing. If they were, all "faiths" would be the same.

                            There is nothing wrong with saying "I put my faith first." It takes guts to say such a thing in today's world, dear Manu. I respect that.

                            May you find peace in what you believe,


                            • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                              Tue, December 6, 2005 - 12:34 PM
                              thank u amma ji. i appreciate it.

                              since we are talkin of truth, faith and the rg veda, ill just share my favorite quote.

                              "truth is one, the sages call it by various names"

                              -Rg veda.
                              • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                Tue, December 6, 2005 - 1:08 PM
                                You go Manu!:)~
                                • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                  Tue, December 6, 2005 - 1:15 PM
                                  u kno it gurrrrllll ;)
                                  • Unsu...

                                    Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                    Tue, December 6, 2005 - 1:19 PM
                                    Joseph Campbell was fond of saying "I don't need faith. I have experience." Anybody here got personal experience?

                                    Or is faith the only way to know Lord Shiva?
                                    • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                      Tue, December 6, 2005 - 1:46 PM
                                      i think its both. faith in being open to the experience. and in the expereice itself. for example, i take a lot of inspiration from shiva - in that i love his bhakti to krsna. that he is always meditating on him....ahhhhh om namah shivaya ;)
                                      • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                        Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:48 PM
                                        I also think that its past life connections!:)
                                        • Ria
                                          offline 8

                                          Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                          Thu, December 8, 2005 - 12:12 AM
                                          I'm not sure you have to have faith to have experience.. for me personally I didn't even know anything about Shiva or even Hinduism for that matter when I had my first "experience", and I think it's pretty hard to say you have faith in something you don't even really know exists. That experience and many that followed is where my faith came from. I will agree that past life connections likely has something to do with it..
                                          • Unsu...

                                            Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                            Thu, December 8, 2005 - 2:30 AM
                                            Same here Ria. As I see it, Lord Shiva chose me. Not the other way around. I was simply taking a long hot bath when he decided to appear. Then it was all over. I have loved Him ever since.

                                            And He has been teaching e what He wants me to know.

                                            I have encountered Him several times since the bath tub incident. But never again as powerfully. I found out later that he visited me on the night Of MahaShivratri. 2003.

                                            No... I wasn't smokin ganga. Only deep in meditation.
                                          • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                            Thu, December 8, 2005 - 6:22 AM
                                            ria, thats what faith is, to believe in something u dont kno exists. that is the very definition of faith.

                                            and im curious amma ji, what does shiva ji teach u? or what do u learn from him? :)

                                            • Unsu...

                                              Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                              Thu, December 8, 2005 - 7:39 AM

                                              His first lesson was that not all Gods are patriarchal, domineering bastards trying to rape their Goddesses and feed their disciples a line of ruling-class, political bull.

                                              Second lesson, if told in entirety, is possibly censorable under new Tribe guidelines. Suffice to say that it was an affirmation of the physical body as sacred temple.

                                              Third lesson..... yet to come.... stay tuned.....

                                              • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                                Thu, December 8, 2005 - 8:10 AM
                                                yaaaaa i kno, i have bringing this up about the new tribe "rules". i am disgusted to say the least. sometimes i just dont understand the US.

                                                btw, i agree. the divinity is not patriarchal, god exists with goddess, like RADHA-krsna, SITA-rama, shiva-shakti and purusha-prakriti. they co-exist.

                                                and the body is indeed a temple, (remember when u commented on the mark on my forehead-the tilaka- this is to mark the body as a temple).

                                                and i shall stay tuned.... :)
                                                • Unsu...

                                                  Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                                  Thu, December 8, 2005 - 8:36 AM
                                                  Rhadhe & Govinda actually hang on the wall above my bedroom altar.

                                                  And Ganesh is seated upon my downstairs altar.

                                                  But Shiva Ji has my heart. He is my doorway back into God worship, after 20+ years of rejecting it.

                                                  • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                                    Thu, December 8, 2005 - 9:01 AM
                                                    • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                                      Thu, December 8, 2005 - 12:38 PM
                                                      In truth all worshippers need but come to realization and actualization of their paths.

                                                      In Sattyagraha (Truth and non harming) everything is possible. Even though thru the work of and better interpretations of the Gita were made. In applying spiritual concepts to overcome resistance, at this level, I think Gandhi was an avatar of Vishnu. And yet he struck at the very prejudism which has been keeping their people apart for generations of Brahmaic control (using Veda's and other texts to 'prove' they are right)

                                                      I can see where since the use of Non cooperation in Indian politics....alot of the old school vedic thought has been challenged. There are still pockets of resistance. Small groups of people who art still holding on to antiquated notions (beliefs) by which they feel comfortable in the world. Then there are those who are out for actualization, and can see to the unity of the One true ineffable manifestation of divine reality.

                                                      And to think it's older than the Veda's, takes essence from them, and then transcends all learning into a greater possibility of the future evolution of our species.
                                                      Truth by Love, Love leading to a priori truth which for some remains hidden in clouded thoughts. But we will all get there :)

                                                      Om Shiva Shivani aum
                                                      • Unsu...

                                                        Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                                                        Fri, December 9, 2005 - 5:07 AM

                                                        I have been thinking about this post and I feel it gets at the core of Campbell's realization. Once the soul experiences that deep, a priori, truth.... faith seems a quaint notion.

                                                        Yes, it may be a stepping stone, and I don't think Campbell would argue that. I think he would accept the same about "scriptures" and verbal histories (he was fond of Amerindian spiritual lore, little of which was ever written and isn't, even today.)

                                                        In the end of his life, tho, Campbell came to the realization that none of it mattered. And he said, succinctly, "I don't need faith, I have experience." Hearing him say that was an "aha" for me.

                                                        One other things Campbell said in his later days was that life is easy when you are on the path because "help is right there." I remember Bill Moyers joking with him about this. "Right there?" And Campbell motioned as if he could *see* his help. Another "aha."

                                                        Thanks for the well thought out post!
                                                        • Shiva Ganja, and beyond

                                                          Mon, December 12, 2005 - 11:18 AM
                                                          Tynak you Amma,
                                                          I live about a mile from the Center for Symbolic Studies (Stephen & Robin Larsen Ph.D) who were friends of Mr. Campbells. Funny too, I was a student of his writtings for many years.

                                                          I mention this to give validity to your view of my post. As a Story telling neo techno shamanic healer....I find that getting the quidity of the truth is important...for no matter what the conscious beliefs....the inner being of Self resonates with truth when and where it is presented.

                                                          But I am amiss, I dont mean to highjack this thread. The actual topic was 'Ganja and Shiva' though it seems a bit played out :)

                                                          But to further your view......
                                                          I think that we have been in a time of 'Orientalization of Western philosophy' which for me now becomes a work of 'Westernizing Oriental concepts of philosophy.'

                                                          As soon as we give up with these Tribal notions of god/goddess' name, then transcendental love is possible. It is our traditional practices which may keep us from losing the out dated behaviors which keep us from actualizing world peace. But it will come.....with us as a species, or without us.

                                                          I just thought about your comment on Campbells thought on 'Faith' Actually I have said something similar.....though now I realize I have 'faith' in my experience of the divine to be an a priori truth which transcends the bonds of time and space. This experiential knowledge is sacred....and so I reveal it daily :)

                                                          live in love
              • Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

                Fri, January 27, 2006 - 10:20 PM
                this is not true buddhist tantrik are not the oldest infact they came rather too late buddha existed at the time of great emperor "ashoka the great" he ruled india 234 b.c., so it's pretty late... and i believe vigyan bhairava tantra is very much older than that the only among two books dedicated to tantra in sanskrit ...

                anyways if we remove the scripture and look simply we see that conception of shiva and shakti is the oldest as shiva represents evlution and meditation.. one who experiments and finds new things .. so shiva predates veadas and without shiva we can not even imagine the existence of veadas, b'cus veads must have been written by a thinker equivellent to shiva... tantra is more traditional something that is passed from a guru to a deciple and then the chain continues the real tantra and tantrik rituals has always been a guarded secret...

                According to many yoga and tantric traditions, the historical Yogi Shiva (who later became Lord Shiva, part myth and part history) is considered the first yoga and tantrik practitioner. It is said that he is the first to teach these oneness-realizing methodologies. He is said to pre-date all written scripture. Even the Vedas, which many scholars believe to be the oldest religious scriptures in the entire world.

                I believe there is a scripture called Shiva Sutra, I'm still looking for a book that contains this manuscript written by Lord Shiva. i am looking for the sanskrit version but i havn't found one as yet .. i call him lord shiva out of love :-)

                !! AUM SHANTI !!
  • There is a rich tradition of ganjika (marijuana) and charas (hashish) in the worship of Lord Siva; primarily among sadhus.

    Siva is the Lord of Intoxication - Sanskrit mada - meaning He is in a permanent state of ecstasy (God-Intoxication). He is also known as Soma-Siva, soma being a Vedic intoxicant.

    The /Mahishashuramardini Stotra/ mentions the "evil intoxication" of "pride"; and this is just one of thousands of examples. Some are listed as good, some bad, similar to virtues.

    Even Rishi Patanjali wrote on the use of mantra and osadhi/herbs for the attainment of siddhi (ref: 4.1).

    The key here is how ganjika and charas are used. I would suggest an ascetic or ritual setting, far from a recreational environment; which certainly seems more fitting of Siva.

    Be Whole!
    Siddhananda Devi

    • Ha Ho Mahadev,
      really want to connect with Shiva, and not just use Ganja as a religious reason?

      Try partaking of some Datura! Aka, Thornapple.

      As one of my Gurus said 'That is Shiva food!' As it is...given to Shiva on Shiva night....which is right around the corner.

      Rainbow Fox
      • that's definitely not a recreational plant.
        • Smoking datura *leaves*, not seeds, is relatively harmless. Seeds will send you to the E.R.

          All I know is, smoke ganja and listen to Namah Shivaya by Krishna Das (Live on Earth CD) for the greatest high ever. Or go see that statue Manish was talking about.
          • i heard too much datura can make you go blind... they sometimes put a little in bhang lassis...
            • Unsu...
              I think it is amazing how this thread keeps resurfacing.

              Manish, you have really struck a cord here!!
              • Unsu...
                Hi there, first post here. How are you all doing tonight? How's your year so far?

                Ok, enough chit chat. I found this wonderful link about Datura, and it also mentions the Ganja plant and Shiva. It also says that the Sadhus and Yogis smoke the leaves AND seeds mixed with Ganja. Enjoy.

                • Unsu...
                  LOL, I just mentioned this to my partner, and he told me has a bunch of Datura seeds in his possesion right now. Hmmmm.....
                  He also sent me a forwarded mail from a friend of his. He gave me permission to post it. It's some pretty good food for thought.

                  "About 5 years ago I made the decision to write a book about my horrific 3 day hallucinogenic journey with the sacred plant Datura [inoxia].
                  For those of you unaware of Datura, it is a plant that dates back to 500BC where it was used in various shamanic and witchcraft rituals. The ‘high’ you get from boiling the seeds into a tea are extremely dangerous; some people never come back from their ‘trip’, insanity has been documented and even death. It is currently used by shamans to travel to “other world’s unseen by the human eye” and to “talk to the dead”. (you can read more about the plant in the books of Carlos Castaneda's/Don Juans teachings).
                  I had a 3 day journey with the plant about 15 years ago. I was unaware of what I was taking at the time and the entire experience changed my life like you wouldn’t believe. I was unaware of reality completely and even had major psychic visions that came true many years later. I could not distinguish what was real and what wasn’t. I didn’t know who I was, where I was and all concept of perception was blurred. The horrifying visions were so real in fact, that I could literally smell them and reach out and touch them. This lasted for three full days. A week after it was over, my vision was blurred although it came back after about two weeks. The experience caused me years of psychiatric treatment. It was only up to about 5 years ago that I have been able to take the reigns back on life again. Taking Datura is NOT recommended. I was very, very lucky I came out of it alive."

                  I'm so curious now, due to the contradictory messages, some sites say seeds, while others say beware. Hmmmmm..........
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Definately BEWARE!!! Some die, some just freak out for the rest of their life, some a few years. But Guaranteed to shake your reality. One time a kid died on it at a Rainbow gathering. People can really fu*k themselves up with dis stuff!!! Om shanti
  • M
    offline 132

    Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

    Sun, January 29, 2006 - 12:57 PM
    Shankar is a name for Shiva, one the 3 main dieties in the Indian pantheon. His dance is the rhythm of the world, the beat of the heart, the cycle of day and night. He lives in the Himalayas, and lies in the mountains smoking cannabis and his hair flows down from the mountains as the holy river Ganges. His worhippers include "sadhus," wandering mendicants whose worship includes smoking chillums of hash, so they became very popular with the wandering freak set India. "Boom Shiva" is said by sadhus before they light the chillum to: sanctify it Shiva, let Shiva know the chillum is being smoked, let other sadhus, et al, know to come share a chillum. Loosely translated as: OH shiva... I`m smoking a chillum, hey you sadhus, come and share it with me." Other varients: boom, bem, bom, bam, boom, boom shiva, boom mahadev (greatgod), bembaleh.

    For more see:
    • Unsu...

      Re: relation between smokin' ganja and shiva?

      Sun, January 29, 2006 - 1:23 PM
      Shiva Boom Hari Hari Ganja

      Oh Shiva, you are my tru self, and since I do
      not know who I am, I bow to you.

      You who are seated in above me, who is in the cloud.
      The Father of Sri Ganesha, and the Husband of Parvati.

      Please have mercy on me, your fallen servant.

      Til, we meet again.....*smile knowingly*
  • Symbolism of Samudra manthan(churning of the ocean)

    The story represents the spiritual endeavor of a person to achieve self-realisation through concentration of mind, withdrawal of senses, control of desires and practice of austerities and asceticism.

    * The Devas and Asuras represent the positives and negatives respectively of one's personality. The participation of both the Devas and the Asuras signifies that when one is seeking bliss through spiritual practice, one has to integrate and harmonise both the positive and negative aspects and put both the energies to work for the common goal.

    * The ocean of milk is the mind or the human consciousness. The mind is like an ocean while the thoughts and emotions are the waves in the ocean.

    * Mandhara, the mountain symbolises concentration. The word Mandhara is made up of two words Mana (mind) and Dhara (a single line) which means holding the mind in one line. This is possible only by concentration.

    * Mount Mandhara was upheld by Lord Vishnu as a Kurma (tortoise). The tortoise here symbolises the withdrawal of the senses into oneself (just as a tortoise withdraws its head into its shell) as one practices mental concentration and meditation or contemplation.

    * Vasuki symbolises desire. Vasuki used in the churning of the ocean denotes that the Devas and the demons held desire (to seek immortality) as a rope and churned the mind with the help of concentration and withdrawal of the senses. Desire, if not controlled will overpower and destroy an individual.

    * The Halahala poison(or ganja today) symbolises suffering and pain (counter-reaction of the mind and body) that one undergoes at the beginning of spiritual sadhana (practice). When the mind is subjected to intense concentration, the first thing that comes out of the process is intense suffering and great inner turmoil. These must be resolved otherwise further progress is not possible.

    ==> * Lord Shiva symbolises the ascetic principle. His role in this story as the consumer of poison suggests that one can deal with the early problems of spiritual life by cultivating the qualities of Lord Shiva, namely, courage, initiative, willingness, discipline, simplicity, austerity, detachment, compassion, pure love and asceticism.

    The various precious objects that come out of the ocean during the churning stand for the psychic or spiritual powers (Siddhis) which one gains as s/he progresses spiritually from stage to stage. The seeker should be careful about these powers as they can hamper her/his progress unless s/he uses them judiciously, not for selfish gains but for others' welfare. This is the reason why the Gods and demons distributed these objects as they did not want to lose sight of their original aim which was to gain immortality.

    * Dhanvantari symbolises health and signifies that immortality (longevity, to be correct) or spiritual success can be achieved only when the body and the mind are in a perfect state of health.

    * Mohini symbolises delusion of the mind in the form of (or originating from) pride. It is the pride of achievement to which the asuras or the demons succumbed and thus lost sight of their goal. Pride and egoism are the last hurdles one has to overcome in spiritual life before experiencing self-realisation.

    * The Amrit symbolises the ultimate achievement of the goal of self-realistion.

    • i didn't know i would initiate such interesting responses i just wanted to know the western opinion on this very interesting discussion it is worth reading on the tribe. and is good to know that many people have misconception about ganja 70% just smoke without knowing the significance of it but pretend that they are doing it for shiva and they forget that shiva symbolises a fight between drugs and meditation shiva symbolises self (atman and an egarness to realise atman).

      and the people with whome they smoke in india basically they don't know the symbolism of it themselves they just know the process of passing the chilom and will get angry if you pass it incorrectly that is good but what is wrong is that one should know what shiva means, and how we can apply the conception of shiva to ourselves. one more thing i would like to point out here that mearly by growing the beards and hair like jatadhari it is not necessary that one become a great philosopher or guru or shiva, or a true sage.

      there are three types of gurus 1.stone , 2. leaf , 3. wood .
      suppose some point in life you are in the midst of a wirlpool (wirlpool of life) and you goto the first guru and ask i am in darkness and there is a big wirlpool my gurudev please make me cross the river (river of life ). the first guru is stone. he says sit on me i will make u cross the river he sits and as the guru enters the water both of them sink.

      if you goto the second guru the leaf and ask the same your guru says ok sit on me i will make you cross the river. when both of you enter the water you go to some distance and both of you sink but, yes but, the guru was a leaf he was lighter than water he came up the water but you could't come up.

      if you goto the third guru the wood and ask him to make you cross you the river. what he does is that he makes a small bote himself being a wood and asks you sit on him he has firmness in his nature as well as beauty. and both of you cross the wirlpool of life the river safely...

      so beaware in searching a guru or believing any other jatadhari he might be a leaf or stone search for the wood guru, who has consciousness and bliss both at the same time, and who is capable of making you cross that wirlpool of life with together :-)

      !! AUM SHANTI !!